tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post243858162554367878..comments2024-03-19T02:14:31.704-04:00Comments on <center>OnFiction</center>: Burke's Oceanic WaveKeith Oatleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16419339550879570935noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-84647077542485698342011-03-01T09:00:08.894-05:002011-03-01T09:00:08.894-05:00Thanks, Laura and Michael for your discussion on t...Thanks, Laura and Michael for your discussion on the vividness of mental imagery. It turns out there is, as the discussion indicates, a wide range of experience of the vividness of mental imagery. (I am like Laura in this respect, but a majority of people do report mental images that are more vivid than hers and mine.) It turns out, too, that vivid imagery for objects is different from being able to think about relationships among objects and moving through space: people who are good at the one are not necessarily good at the other. There is now a whole psychological sub-field, and even a journal, on mental imagery, and researchers are interested in relating the vividness of imagery to memory tasks and the like. I notice that there is some research on the vividness of imagery in relation to people's interest in electronic fantasy games, but I don't know of any research on vividness in relation to becoming absorbed in print fiction.Keith Oatleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419339550879570935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-58556591069204829642011-03-01T06:12:20.498-05:002011-03-01T06:12:20.498-05:00Did you not even see fleeting, sketchy images of t...<i>Did you not even see fleeting, sketchy images of that pig in your "mind's eye"?</i><br /><br />I can't even visualise the faces of my family in my mind's eye. I do have vague memories of shapes but they're of a similar quality to what one might see when walking through a house at night, with the lights out: most things seem black and white and although one can see shapes, they're blurred by shadows.<br /><br />For example, if I think about photos I remember their content mostly in words (e.g. X was wearing a red dress, she had her hair pinned up, etc) and if I try to visualise them I would probably only be able to have an impression of the size and position of the people in the photo. Or I can mentally navigate myself round parts of my old school, but it's a bit like doing so in the dark. While I might occasionally catch a glimpse of a detail, or a flash of colour, as soon as I try to focus on it, it slips away.<br /><br />So I might be able to remember the outline shape of a pig's ear, or have a memory of the size of the last pig I saw, but that's the best I'd be able to do.<br /><br />I've had discussions with other people about memory, and people's abilities do seem to vary. My father's an artist and his visual memory seems to be so accurate that he can even recall individual bricks in a building he's visited. My brother-in-law's a musician and he can hear music in his head (I can't) and my mother's mentioned that she can remember tastes (I can't do that either).<br /><br />I suspect that some readers may smell and hear and taste and perhaps touch, as well as see, some of the scenes in the fiction they read.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-3466946711594127352011-03-01T05:41:51.204-05:002011-03-01T05:41:51.204-05:00Thanks for your comments, Laura. Very interesting ...Thanks for your comments, Laura. Very interesting indeed. Did you not even see fleeting, sketchy images of that pig in your "mind's eye"? <br />The subjects in my experiment appear to broadly agree with what you say about 'mood'.<br />best wishes - and thanks for your question,<br />Michael.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-11801103409532674992011-02-25T10:43:30.401-05:002011-02-25T10:43:30.401-05:00Thanks, Michael.
Re visualisation, it was only wh...Thanks, Michael.<br /><br />Re visualisation, it was only when I was in secondary school, studying a poem by Ted Hughes about a pig, that I realised that I was unusual in this respect. We were being encouraged to "see" the pig in our mind's eye. I can't do that, and I couldn't understand what it was I was expected to do. I had to have it explained to me, and at that point I discovered that other people really can "see" things that aren't in front of them.<br /><br />In general it doesn't cause me difficulties with regards to enjoying or studying literature, though I suspect that some of the long descriptive passages I find boring might be more interesting if I could visualise what's being described. Descriptions work best for me if the words evoke emotions, or if I'm aware of some underlying symbolism.<br /><br />Re mood, I'm almost always in the right mood to read something; I just need to choose the right text for the particular mood I'm in. I find that non-fiction generally requires a lot more concentration.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-22572219029463016072011-02-25T10:17:33.091-05:002011-02-25T10:17:33.091-05:00Hi Laura,
Indeed. I only write about literary fict...Hi Laura,<br />Indeed. I only write about literary fiction. I set out a five-point plan, as it were. One of these is "pre-reading mood" (the others are style, themes, mental imagery and the physical reading location). I believe this, (and the kind of "anticipation" that it brings with it), differs markedly from reading non-literary texts. I think that non-literary texts can be read emotionally or even "oceanically" (but in a watered-down version, if you will excuse the awful pun). I would hope that someone might test the model (or parts of it) on groups reading non-literary tests). At the end of the book I muse how the oceanic mind might not be just limited to literary discourse processing. It would be great to see that confirmed. <br />best wishes,<br />Michael Burke.<br />Ps. Interesting that you experience no imagery at all while reading literature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-7150015442579383072011-02-23T05:57:36.078-05:002011-02-23T05:57:36.078-05:00Thanks, Keith. I was just curious because other pe...Thanks, Keith. I was just curious because other people have tried to distinguish between the two. I don't visualise anything when reading (I don't have a visual memory) but I've read enough discussions online to know that many romance readers do visualise scenes in the books they read, and many feel they have learned things from them.Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-1907223246099396502011-02-22T07:32:37.445-05:002011-02-22T07:32:37.445-05:00Thanks, Laura, for this comment. My memory of the ...Thanks, Laura, for this comment. My memory of the book is that its focus is entirely on literary fiction. I don't remember discussion of reading genres such as romances, and neither the term "genre" nor the term "romance" is in the index. But I will send an e-mail to Michael Burke to see if he would like to reply to your comment.Keith Oatleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419339550879570935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-73221411178318559432011-02-21T12:22:11.772-05:002011-02-21T12:22:11.772-05:00Does he limit himself to writing about "liter...Does he limit himself to writing about "literary fiction" simply because that's the kind of fiction he has the most experience of reading, or does he think that only "literary fiction" can be read oceanically?Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.com