tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post6504656425504987677..comments2024-03-19T02:14:31.704-04:00Comments on <center>OnFiction</center>: First-Person and Third-PersonKeith Oatleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16419339550879570935noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-68278819967657815682009-08-07T12:32:15.240-04:002009-08-07T12:32:15.240-04:00But this study specifically asked a random person ...But this study specifically asked a random person (presumably not a professional writer) to assume the identity of another as they wrote in the first person.<br /><br />I do believe this is fundamentally different from a (skilled) writer of fiction who deliberately makes a choice of first person POV. <br /><br />A writer is quite capable and exquisitely aware of the difference between herself and the POV character, regardless of narrative voice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09858789421494610124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-75364850379103835182009-07-27T08:18:25.220-04:002009-07-27T08:18:25.220-04:00Thanks for the reply, Keith--and of course the cla...Thanks for the reply, Keith--and of course the classic example of what you mention in the last graph above, is Nabakov in Lolita. The book is troubling because we find Humbert Humbert, a pedophile, so intriguingly empathetic, specifically because of the first person point of view. The book would be thoroughly repugnant from third person objective, and maybe even from third person subjective. <br /><br />Whether or not to do such a thing is "prosocial" or not is up for debate, but it is, of course, why the book troubles some and fascinates many.blog nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12546454002729653696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-33461477215729404832009-07-27T07:03:51.728-04:002009-07-27T07:03:51.728-04:00Thank you very much, Blog Nerd, for these interest...Thank you very much, Blog Nerd, for these interesting thoughts. It is often something an author has to choose, whether to write in first person, or some version of third-person, and the distinction between empathetic and advisory is useful. It had not occurred to me that fairy tales are always in third-person. Your idea about why this should be is thought provoking. Although there are ways of inviting empathy from a third-person position, it seems much more difficult to set up a distance between narrator and reader using first-person narrative.Keith Oatleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419339550879570935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-38557871646472989902009-07-27T06:50:35.296-04:002009-07-27T06:50:35.296-04:00Intriguing post. This returns to the idea of advis...Intriguing post. This returns to the idea of advisory and empathic projection (Lakoff and Johnson) that I posted about in the combox here before. <br /><br />It seems that third person leans toward advisory projection and first person toward empathic projection, based on this finding. <br /><br />This is interesting in terms of fairy tales which are always in third person--contemporary fairy tales (Dahl, Rowling, etc.) seem to adopt this indirect, free style first person. Is this related to third person with an "attached" point of view? Are you familiar with this termniology? I believe Emma would be an example of third person with an attached point of view. I've read Emma but cannot recall exactly, but I seem to think overhearing thoughts would only occur with Emma and the narration only occurs when Emma is in the room. <br /><br />This is of interest with children--anti-heroes or flawed heroes for children are of concern, naturally, because parents don't wish children to emulate serious errors in moral decision making the characters might make. But if the child is encouraged to distance themselves as in advisory projection, its easier for them to draw morals from both positive and negative space in the stories.blog nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12546454002729653696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-31334247027937448292009-07-24T16:03:39.365-04:002009-07-24T16:03:39.365-04:00The study you describe is very similar to projects...The study you describe is very similar to projects I have planned with a collaborator (Dr. Allen Braun, NIH/NIDCD). It may be some time before we get to those studies, but they are certainly something that we have discussed and intend to do. Rest assured that the results will appear here at OnFiction once they become available.Raymond A. Marhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521492403638340957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5455277388900637928.post-59215405410754410602009-07-24T13:59:58.431-04:002009-07-24T13:59:58.431-04:00I was really interested in this. But imagine how e...I was really interested in this. But imagine how even more interesting it might be to look at any differences in neural activity between skilled writers performing such activities and "ordinary" ie non-professional/skilled writers doing the same??? What do you think we'd find - and has anyone done this, do you know?Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12189894289540344094noreply@blogger.com